My ask is that...

[yesthattom]

I feel huge amounts of pain every time a business person nounifies “ask” as in, “My ask is that you approve this budget before Friday.” The right word to use is “request”, but business people are evolving our language.

It is tempting to fight back by writing ask in quotes:

My “ask” is that you approve this budget before Friday

to emphasize that it is not proper English.

Today I was about to do that when it dawned on me that maybe I use use the proper word but put it in quotes. Would that be funny? Would the ask-using person that I am communicating with even get it?

What if I did it verbally and did air quotes for the word “request”. Would that be too blatantly sarcastic?

Comments

[baerana.livejournal.com]

oh, thank god I have never had someone noun “ask” to me

though I do like verbing nouns :)

(and there are words in business lingo I can't stop myself from “air quoting” — fortunately I do most of my communication online or over the phone)

[geekosaur]

*shudder*

as to generalized Korzybski quotes on "request", they probably wouldn't get it.

[cinema-babe.livejournal.com]

What if I did it verbally and did air quotes for the word “request”. Would that be too blatantly sarcastic?

Yes but it would also be hilarious. I haven't experienced the nounification of "ask" yet bur when I do, I will have to restrain my fist from punching the speaker in the head.

And I will likely remind them that ask is a verb.

[cartographer.livejournal.com]

If you're extra-lucky, you'll hear them tell you they'll "action your ask". (Punch hard; you're doing it for society as a whole)

What if I did it verbally and did air quotes for the word “request”. Would that be too blatantly sarcastic?

They won't get it. They're too broken, I suspect.

[catwithbell.livejournal.com]

What she said!

And I deal with lots of strange language down here like "aight" and "yameen?"

[la-directora.livejournal.com]

The problem is that there is a VALID use of the word "ask" as a noun in business - as in the "asking price" of a stock, which is the "ask". So what you're seeing is language drift, just maybe not the specific one you think it is.

The phrase "My ask" just sounds stupid to me. I can't believe they don't feel stupid when they say it.

[mangosteen]

Yeah. That.

It's the little thrill of feeling like a bond trader calling the shots. Then entertaining thing would be to correct them and tell them that they really mean to say "the 'bid'", as it's the service/stock they're requesting.

Unfortunately, doing such a thing would just come off as a rather transparent "Geek Bid For Dominance", and that doesn't go over terribly well, either.

[awfief.livejournal.com]

Also in fundraising, which I'm surprised didn't come to yesthattom. ie, like "Do your 'ask' and then be silent."

Although "My ask" sounds too much like "my ass."

[la-directora.livejournal.com]

I actually speak at fundraising events, and knew about that usage, but just assumed it was bad grammar. :) But even if it isn't, I'm horrified at the idea of a fundraising concept being used to describe business tasks. Yech.

[awfief.livejournal.com]

A fundraising concept *is* a business task.

[la-directora.livejournal.com]

On some level, yes. But using "the ask" to mean "asking people to give money to a charity" is VERY different than using "the ask" to mean "asking people to do their assigned work tasks". One should not have to appeal to someone's generosity before they approve a budget or complete a task. Using the phrase in that way in the business world seems incredibly problematic to me.

[yesthattom.livejournal.com]

I first saw it being used in the context of making presentations to executives, which would end with the "ask" for their approval, funding, whatever. That's an interesting analogy to charity (asking the rich person to help the powerless, eh?)

Using it between coworkers is a different.

[la-directora.livejournal.com]

I guess the reason why I find that a bit troubling is that executives being asked to approve something should be based on sound business decisions, not "charity" from the "rich" people in the company. I think it sets up a disturbing "us vs. them" mentality between the "big wigs" and the "peons".

[awfief.livejournal.com]

*nod* agreed.

[cartographer.livejournal.com]

One of the all-hands meetings in Europe had each team use a template for describing their project. The last section was intended to have them describe the one thing that would make their project more successful and was titled "Our ask". Predictably, with "ask" written up there on the projector, most people found themselves saying "Our ask is.." out loud, too. Two hours in, I wanted everyone dead. Everyone.

[babbage.livejournal.com]

This is something I find odd. There are plenty of people about who seem to care a lot about consistency in use of " versus ' in programs, or omitting redundant trailing whitespace, or a thousand similar minutiae of computer programs. Yet they appear to be blind to the sort of things you're talking about.

I have to confess to being especially pedantic myself, and especially with C. I'm slightly less pedantic with English and indeed send many emails with terrible typos in them because I omit the proof-reading on most email. Despite my personal tendency toward pedantry, I don't believe that, in general, fixing the problems I perceive will be enormously useful, so mainly I let them pass by. The main exception is when I believe that the speaker/writer doesn't know their usage is wrong, but probably does care (non-native speakers are the best example here I think).

On the etymology

[mrfantasy.livejournal.com]

I seem to remember the concept of "ask" as a noun is from the philanthropic world, where the "ask" is the request for a gift of some form. Since it's something more-or-less tangible as a clearly defined process, it can have a noun. It's also something that you would never say during a request for a contribution.

Extending that to business-world requests, or the idea of simply asking that something get done, is less tenable. It's also in many ways a form of passive voice--instead of actually asking for something, you're presenting the "ask" as an abstract concept with no person actually doing it (even though it's "your ask"). In other words, you're not presenting the courage to say "I want this". I don't think that's healthy.

[slinkr.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I started hearing that at my company over the last 6 months or so. Even from people I really respect. It's enough to drive you up a wall.

[roosterbear.livejournal.com]

The first time I heard "ask" used as a noun was on Capitol Hill, ie when you're lobbying, you present your "ask" to the staff person. I thought it was odd and irritating but kind of gritted my teeth and put up with it, since I only have to deal with it once a year. I'm disturbed to learn that, whatever the reason, this usage is leaking out into more common usage. Ick.

be thankful they don't say "aks"

[jayeye.livejournal.com]

for the record

[kirinqueen.livejournal.com]

"The variant in modern dialect ax (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=ask&searchmode=none) is as old as O.E. acsian..."

[stitchinthyme.livejournal.com]

You know, when I saw your subject line, I winced, until I read the post. I so agree...this is one of my pet peeves. How I react when someone does it tends to depend on who it is, though: if it's someone I know well I will call them on it, but if it's, say, a customer, I just grit my teeth and let it go.

[noglider.livejournal.com]

I hadn't heard that, but of course, I'm sure to hear it soon.

"Asking price" doesn't mean "ask" is a noun. "Asking," in this case, is called a participial adjective, i.e. an adjective made out of the verb "to ask."

My similar pet peeve with the language is that the word "issue" is a euphemism for "problem." I guess it sounds less negative, but the way it's used, it doesn't sound good anyway. Be honest. Release 2.4.1 has problems, not issues. An issue is a topic, OK?

Grr!

My issue with these things...

[rationalfool.livejournal.com]

And I though "issues" were progeny! ;-)

My problem with these sort of things is also the verbosity. Why "My ask is that you do X" instead of "Can you do X?" or at least "I request you to do X". Anyway, this rant can get lengthy...

Here's one: "socialise" ... "I will socialise these issues with my peers" (i.e., I will let my colleagues know about these bugs).

Re: My issue with these things...

[noglider.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. Now you got me started with extra verbosity.

For instance, why does the ATM say "remove your card at this time"? Why has "at this time" replaced "now"? For that matter, it could have just said, "remove your card".

Sometimes you'll even say "at this point in time" which still just means "now".

And how about the way people stick in the word "condition". The weather man will tell us about a fog condition. That used to be called fog.

Re: My issue with these things...

[rationalfool.livejournal.com]

Good ones! ;-) A related anecdote that I like to recall: when I first landed in the USA, along with me was another Indian student headed to the same college. We were both nervous (for no particular reason) as we completed the immigration procedure... things went smoothly, until the point where my friend noticed a field titled "Date:" in a form. Stammering a bit, he asked the imposing old immigration officer, "Is that today's date?". "Well", said the old chap with a smile, "its today, isn't it?".

[pseph.livejournal.com]

"Business people are evolving our language." Is that good English?

Strained pain

[filhodabbc.livejournal.com]

Pardon my ignorance... but didn't many, many, many modern words come from a corruption, mistranslation, variation, alteration, transliteration, or some other "impure" origination not wholly different from the appearance of the nounified "ask"? Where does the indignation end? Where does it start, for that matter?

I try to stay proudly true to my Midwest roots (and trunk, and branches) and say "pop," but "soda" doesn't really bother me. Nor do I think one is actually more correct than the other. And where's the problem in all that?