Republicans can die too

[yesthattom]

A few years ago, a few jobs ago, I used to have a cow-orker that professed to be a staunch Republican and would bore the entire staff with his lunch-time and water-cooler rants about the wonderful Republican ideals of free markets, smaller government, and why Democrats were such losers. Nobody agreed with him, but it wasn’t worth arguing with him because he would never admit to losing a debate. Eventually we figured out that he debated because he liked to hear himself talk and that it was a waste of time to join in the conversations. Eventually he’d tire himself out and shut up... usually right around when lunch was over. Sometimes I would debate him for the fun of it or to fine-tune my debating strategy on a particular topic however eventually it became nether fun nor a useful way to hone my debating strategy, especially since he debated in a style that wouldn’t play well on a TV broadcast or to a reporter, which is where I wanted to sharpen my skills. But mostly I stopped debating him because it was boring to my coworkers who were trying to enjoy their lunch.

People noticed. A few cow-orkers actually asked me privately why I had stopped debating him and I told them the truth: “He bores me. I spend my free time actually lobbying for laws that fixing problems, why should I debate with some big bag of hot air that claims to be in the top 1% smartest people in the world (Mensa) who simply repeats what he hears on Rush Limbaugh or reads in conservative magazines?” I’m sorry if that sounds arrogant but I have to stop giving a shit about people like him.

Then one day I couldn’t hold back from debating him any more. He was off on some rant about free markets... again. After a group of us had suffered through yet another 20 minute monologue I paused him and said, “I’d like you to help me understand how free markets solve problems so well.” He was delighted. “For example, how would they solve, say, starvation?”

He paused, obviously giving it some thought. “Well, um, uh.”

“Yes?” I prompted.

“Well, a free market always solves a problem and...” he paused.

“Yes?” I repeated.

“and sometimes ‘solved’ means...” he stammered, “solves the problem by letting some people... some people would...” again he paused.

“Die?” was he really going to say, “Free markets solve that problem by letting staving people DIE?”

I looked around. Everyone sitting with us had a look of horror on their face. I could tell that each was thinking the same thing: “Death? He he actually going to say the market solves the problem by letting some people die?”

All eyes were on him. I thought to myself, “Wow, how the hell am I going to work with a person now that I know that he is so cold blooded that a reasonable solution to a problem is letting people die in the street? It’s an easy fucking problem to solve! You feed them! You read the part of the bible where it says ‘feed the fucking hungry’ damn it! Holy shit!”

Then I started thinking, “Can I trust this person? How could I work with him in the future? Why does he hate people so much? What a fucking jerk.”

People got up to leave. Some people were so shocked they couldn’t move.

He never finished his sentence. He didn’t have to. And he stopped his political rants at work, at least when I was around, because he knew he had been defeated. More importantly, I had won!

P.S. If you think our debates were too theoretical and academic, please spend a minute and read http://www.livejournal.com/users/leora/254451.html and understand in very real terms that the role of government is not to sit idly by and let free markets run their course, but to stand over them as the stern police officer enforcing the rules of the market, assuring a balanced playing field, and giving a help up to those that the system has forgotten. The role of politics is to bring resources to those that need it, starting with the most needy. And if that’s not enough, remember that Republicans die of starvation too.

Comments

[mcl.livejournal.com]

Wow. You have a much broader range of tactics than I do. When I do this (I admit to baiting extremists and/or parrots for amusement), I almost always end up with them clinging hard and fast to dogma, and I can't ever seem to get them to relinquish the position, or even quietly discover the chinks in their logical armor.

I'd love to read a short list of debating tactics you've refined in situations like that.

[kimuchi.livejournal.com]

I have to give the guy some credit for having a hard time finishing the statement. I know too many geek-libertarian types who would've blithely gone on and completed the thought, and a few who'd probably go on to explain how it's the starving individual's own damn fault for ending up without food in the first place.

[entirelysonja.livejournal.com]

To be fair to conservatives, most of them seem to believe that it is the role of charitable organizations, rather than the government, to provide for the poor and downtrodden. Historically, of course, we've seen that this doesn't work because the supply of charitable donations doesn't meet the amount of the need. But at least such conservatives do have some proposal for how it ought to be possible to see that the poor are fed and housed.

Other conservatives, seem to think that the principle of providing a government "safety net" is OK, but think that the amount of the assistance provided is excessive, and feel that reducing the amount of available assistance would encourage people to get better jobs. (Never mind how hard it is to get any kind of job when you have no home address, or small children at home...)

Anyway, my personal view is that we do need to work on getting people who currently require government assistance into the workforce or into better-paying jobs. I happen to think that providing people with the training, childcare, housing, medical care, etc. needed to achieve this objective is more expensive in the short run, but that it would be better for everyone in the long run.

[yesthattom.livejournal.com]

The preface to Arianna Huffington's book explains about how after years of flying the "the role of charitable organizations, rather than the government, to provide for the poor and downtrodden" and trying to get conservatives to put their money where their mouths are, she gave up.

And became a Democrat.

[mangosteen]

One of my favorite tactics is to say "So, tell me how that would work."
It usually causes them to enumerate all of their assumptions without any effort on your behalf.

[sjthespian.livejournal.com]

Just one thing, Mensa is the top 2% of people who score well on tests -- not 1% of smartest people. Not that I'm one to defend them, as most have egos the size of small countries and are in need of a rectal-cranial inversion.....